Curse

Reformed · Mar 11, 2011, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

i honestly hope this is reverted or an alternate "solution" is found...

Set new spawns experience to zero, increase daily quest reward to 2000 or 2500. Upped daily reward drops it to between 41 and 51 days more in line with 'fast' LDoA runs on the old system and no death leveling required. Assuming you hold quests for 19->20 and farm northlands to around level 14 you could easily get it into the high 20s/low 30s range and it no longer matters who you group with. Damn, that sure was hard Anet.

BrettM · Mar 11, 2011, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Has it occurred to you that messing with the formula that determines XP might not be a very desirable thing to do, no matter how simply it solves the current problem? Or that adding exception code for the new spawns may be more difficult a programming chore than you assume? There may be very good reasons why the Live Team would choose non-optimal solutions in preference to modifying time-tested, working code that is the very heart of GW.

Reformed · Mar 11, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

@BrettM

Set spawns to level 10 regardless of player level then and keep experience. Lets you grind to level 16 if you absolutely insist on doing so just like if you were farming Charr bosses over and over but would now prioritize the quest reward for fast gains. Isn't this the entire point of having the reward to begin with?

tcassa · Mar 11, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Or, another idea. Don't worry about changing anything and don't worry about what other people are doing or how. Problem solved..... I mean, we are talking about Pre-searing. Does it really matter?

Ascended Furling · Mar 11, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I dont like the change in the quest spawns. In the guild we are playing with 3 people in pre. One is lvl 11 one 14 and i lvl 17. we are all in a different monster spawn caps now. So i can complete the quests really easy if we play together but i dont like it that im being punished because i like to play with guild mates.
Now im being forced to play alone.... now pre feels more like post again....

Yawgmoth · Mar 12, 2011, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Right now, even after the 'stealth nerf', the full way from level 1 to 20 is still shorter and easier than the way from level 15 to 16 before the Vanguard Quests. Waaaay too fast and easy.

It would be by far the best if they just went with the original intent of making the special mobs not give any exp at all so the only source of exp above lv16 would be the quest rewards (which are VERY high by the way - see most Postsearing Prophecies quests reward just 250 or 500xp).

A player that has only Prophecies and wants just to make a new character (not caring about LDoA) can still get level 20 faster if he stays in Pre than if he went through the normal progression! Such a bad implementation, isn't it?

Also, a player can become a Legendary Defender of Ascalon without killing a single Charr! Just kill lv 5 Oakhearts +accepting basic quest rewards to get to level 10 and then just keep farming the same bandits near a zone portal...

If the exp came just from quest rewards then not only LDoA wouldn't become a complete worthless joke of a title but also players would have a GOOD reason to play together - when you don't have to worry about having to share exp with the other player you can take almost anyone with you so you both finish the task faster!

I wished for some actual mutliplayer activity but this very poor implementation is all about going solo, again. It just continues the tradition of subsequent updates making GW more and more a SinglePlayer Online RPG...

Ugh · Mar 12, 2011, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Instead of nerfing experience gain or something, they should just make the quests harder. Keeping everything at a low level is boring and, personally, would make me not even want to level up. I play pre mostly because I like solo PvE stuff, but eliminating all the challenge would make that suck (that's why I never bothered to get LDoA before the quests). Making the quests harder would be welcomed.

Just increase number of foes (2 level 11 charr are pushovers, even to a level 14) or give everything better bars (hammer and monk grawls and the undead necro groups were pretty good).

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Instead of nerfing experience gain or something, they should just make the quests harder. Keeping everything at a low level is boring and, personally, would make me not even want to level up. I play pre mostly because I like solo PvE stuff, but eliminating all the challenge would make that suck (that's why I never bothered to get LDoA before the quests). Making the quests harder would be welcomed.

I am for making the quests harder BUT with correspondingly MORE exp reward. Less grind but with real challenge is what PvE should be about.

If they can't make it challenging, at least shorten the damn grind. I hate this stealth update since it just makes it more of a longer grind than anything else.

Gli · Mar 12, 2011, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I am for making the quests harder BUT with correspondingly MORE exp reward. Less grind but with real challenge is what PvE should be about.

If they can't make it challenging, at least shorten the damn grind. I hate this stealth update since it just makes it more of a longer grind than anything else.

Yeah, the grind is horrible, like 5-10 minutes a day for a few weeks, and only on days when I feel like it. HOW WILL I COPE?!!??!

Seriously, you'd think there was an expiration date on this title given how people deal with it. Get it a few days later instead of scrambling for chump xp from kills.

Thousand experience. Every day. Minimal effort. Walk in the park. No grind.

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Yeah, the grind is horrible, like 5-10 minutes a day for a few weeks, and only on days when I feel like it. HOW WILL I COPE?!!??!

Seriously, you'd think there was an expiration date on this title given how people deal with it. Get it a few days later instead of scrambling for chump xp from kills.

Thousand experience. Every day. Minimal effort. Walk in the park. No grind.

You do realize that many casual players rather do something else than to go out and repeatedly kill the same old spawns and over and over again, do you?

I rather play new content than to repeatedly grind old ones. It is your choice if you like to play like a mindless bot, just dont expect everyone to do so.

Reformed · Mar 12, 2011, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You do realize that many casual players rather do something else than to go out and repeatedly kill the same old spawns and over and over again...

If this is your stance it needs to be asked...did you max Sunspear and if so, how?

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

If this is your stance it needs to be asked...did you max Sunspear and if so, how?

You can easily max sunspear by doing DoA, vanquishing, and the zaishen quests.

All that is left in this 6 years old game is to get titles for HoM. The only redeeming trait is, it is not much of a grind for most of the titles. For example, you don't have to keep vanquishing the same area 5 times, once for each of your characters, since HoM is account based now. But if I have to get GWAMM in order to transfer each of my characters to GW2, I wouldn't bother.

Shadow Sentinel · Mar 12, 2011, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Optimal solutions (IMHO):

- Quest spawns SHOULDN'T have dynamic leveling and should be set at the same levels as the charr (bosses being L10, and so on) and give normal XP for those levels. If players want a higher level challenge THAT'S WHAT POST IS FOR. Soloing the daily quests with my L20 is fairly easy for me as is anyway. To keep it from being too easy, just increase the number of enemies in each group. This also keeps players from needing to team up at specific levels. Players L1-9 (L1-14, if all these suggestions are implemented) could still tag along and get XP from spawned quest enemies just like they can from the charr now. Dynamic leveling is a fun idea, but isn't the optimal solution for this MULTIPLAYER game in this case.

- Keep the 1000 XP daily quest rewards. Going from L16 to L20 by earning 1000 XP a day still doesn't take all that long. (Doing that, I would have reached LDoA a lot faster still than having had to get around to setting up DLs and hoping my computer didn't crash or my internet didn't get DCed. I actually would have achieved LDoA between 8 to 12 times faster than DLing alone, believe it or not, due to these reasons.) Players could still optionally benefit from setting up DL sessions to make it even faster if they wanted.

- Don't make the daily quests available until L15. That way there is at least some mandatory old-school charr farming from L11 to L14 (which shouldn't take too long) before doing the normal Pre quests to jump you to L15. This makes the daily quests a little more desirable to do and a reward for earning L15, and keeps players doing the quests (playing the game) instead of just farming XP to L20. If you think about it, repeatedly taking a quest and abandoning it or rezoning doesn't make sense for the LDoA title either...

These suggestions should (hopefully) make LDoA achievable (with or without DLing) within about 1 to 2 months of fairly casual, but purposeful and rewarding gameplay in Pre.

Apok · Mar 12, 2011, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You do realize that many casual players rather do something else than to go out and repeatedly kill the same old spawns and over and over again, do you?

I rather play new content than to repeatedly grind old ones. It is your choice if you like to play like a mindless bot, just dont expect everyone to do so.

These quests aren't even two weeks old, and you are already complaining about how boring they are?

You know, they never took away death-leveling; you can still do that if you want.

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

You know, they never took away death-leveling; you can still do that if you want.

I have always known about death leveling but it is something that I don't like to do because that is not playing the game in a fun way (unless being owned repeatedly by charrs is a fun feeling for you for some wierd reasons), or in the way that is intended to be played.

If you have to sacrifice fun for the sake of gaining a title in this game, then it is time to ask yourself why are you even still playing this old game? Are you doing this merely for an e-peen that nobody, but yourself, cares about anymore? Are you just wasting your time doing things that you don't enjoy when you there are many other fun things you could have been doing? (i.e. I do have a life)

Being someone who has spent his hard earned money to buy this game, I am at least entitled to gain some fun from playing it, don't I? Titles, by themselves, are not important to me, I don't care about the e-peens, but it is the fun journey towards achieving such titles that matters.

Currently, I am only completing the daily quests once per day. Rather than farming the same old level 8 mobs, that are actually easy to kill. They should make the daily quests harder, give MORE exp reward than just 1000xp, but fix them so they are not able to be exploited by death leveling or farming the same spawns repeatedly.

Why? · Mar 12, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I have always known about death leveling but it is something that I don't like to do because that is not playing the game in a fun way (unless being owned repeatedly by charrs is a fun feeling for you for some wierd reasons), or in the way that is intended to be played.

If you have to sacrifice fun for the sake of gaining a title in this game, then it is time to ask yourself why are you even still playing this old game? Are you doing this merely for an e-peen that nobody, but yourself, cares about anymore? Are you just wasting your time doing things that you don't enjoy when you there are many other fun things you could have been doing? (i.e. I do have a life)

Being someone who has spent his hard earned money to buy this game, I am at least entitled to gain some fun from playing it, don't I? Titles, by themselves, are not important to me, I don't care about the e-peens, but it is the fun journey towards achieving such titles that matters.

Currently, I am only completing the daily quests once per day. Rather than farming the same old level 8 mobs, that are actually easy to kill. They should make the daily quests harder, give MORE exp reward than just 1000xp, but fix them so they are not able to be exploited by death leveling or farming the same spawns repeatedly.

dude, they don't want to just hand everyone LDoA, they want you to work for it a little bit. 1000xp a day is just fine, it still won't take very long.

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why?

dude, they don't want to just hand everyone LDoA, they want you to work for it a little bit. 1000xp a day is just fine, it still won't take very long.

Dude, learn to Read. I am saying the quests are too easy and easily exploitable for farming. If they dont want to hand everyone LDoA, they should make the quests harder and fix the farming exploits on them. Death leveling and repeatedly farming the spawns by abandoning quests are game exploits that should be fixed!

The game shouldn't be so easily exploitable by mindless bots (whether they be software or humans). If you abandon those quests, it should be gone for the rest of the day and not be allowed to take them again and again within the same day.

melissa b · Mar 12, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Initial thoughts...

The nerf was hard on guildmates wanting to team together but being punished for being different levels. It also eliminated spawn monkeys but not entirely. They still can be utilized if a person wants to farm quest spawned foes in an area of pre they don't have the quest for or if they want to farm the daily quest mobs but already turned in the quest. Finally, it doubled the grind for people farming quest spawned mobs. More on this later.

Furhter thoughts...

A similar title would be Sunspear. You can farm mobs for the title just like ldoa currently. You can also do daily zaishen quests or missions if they take place in the appropriate area of nightfall for title points just like the daily vanguard quests except Sunspear rewarding quests are not offered every day. However since sunspear is not in pre it has additional methods such as completing books. Ultimately, many people achieve the bulk of their points for the Sunspear title farming mobs on weekends that have double points.

Now the Sunspear title can easily be achieved in less than 2 days via mob farming so given that ldoa should not be more special than this similar title, therefore completing ldoa via mob farming in 2 days is perfectly reasonable.

Comparing the old way of getting LDOA to the current way is not reasonable because the old way of death leveling was a broken method and this is obviously why there was an update March 3rd. Just like the old way of getting Sunspear is not compared to getting the current method because it too was broken. What was the old way for getting Sunspear? Create a nightfall character on October 27, 2006 (release date), get to rank 8 via mob farming, wait for almost 6 months, till April 19, 2007 for hard mode to be released, than farm mobs to max. So lets nerf Sunspear to the old way and put in an artificial 6-month time delay for characters once they reach rank 8, na lets not.

Final thoughts....

Ultimately, comparing old broken methods of getting titles is not reasonable or suggesting artificial repetitive 24 hour time delays for current ones will just add frustration to some peoples play styles and is not found in other reputation titles such as Sunspear.

Certainly, the march 11th nerf was a mixed bag with pros and cons. Perhaps before it was too easy and now its just right and no further changes should be implemented. The only thing now left to do that would be inline with the other reputation titles would be to make a new weekend event - double experience for kills in pre-searing.

Killed u man · Mar 12, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Allowing everyone to easily get their titles is on Anet´s agenda, as this would the final boost in sales they could give GW before GW2. Any arguing for making titles harder to get is pointless because it goes directly against the marketing strategy Anet is employing right now.

Instead people should focus on discussing how the end-game and/or PvP could be made better without using major resources, as those 2 elements decide how much fun people can still squeeze out of GW before GW2.

Daesu · Mar 12, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Ultimately, comparing old broken methods of getting titles is not reasonable or suggesting artificial repetitive 24 hour time delays for current ones will just add frustration to some peoples play styles and is not found in other reputation titles such as Sunspear.

Comparing against the Sunspear doesn't hold, because there are MANY ways of progressing in the Sunspear title but there are only very few ways of progressing in the LDoA title.

For Sunspear, there are books, there are missions, there are Zaishen quests, DoA, other synergistic titles like Guardian and Vanquisher, you can also farm which is the most bot-like way.

For LDoA, there are no books or missions and no other synergistic titles. You can either only use Langmar's daily quests or exploit death leveling. The problem is combining these 2 would get you to LDoA too fast and they should slow it down. Now that they have Langmar's quests, they should FIX the exploits for death leveling and quest farming.

After fixing these exploits which would cut down the time taken for LDoA drastically, they should make the Langmar quests harder but more rewarding so people would STILL be interested in getting LDoA. Making the quests harder would also nudge more people to team up, since we don't have heroes in pre. What is the point of letting people solo all the way to LDoA by exploiting death leveling and quest farming? If you want LDoA, you should at least learn to play as a team.